FANDOM


Pieter Kuiper

Christmas check mark

Adam Cuerden
Mon, 6 Dec 2010 20:25:08

It concerns me greatly that Commons seems unable to deal with a user who, at various times, has attacked a Jew with anti-semitic cartoons, has thrown racist abuse at a German then harassed that user - and still has numbers of admins willing to unblock him, simply because he does supposedly good work on Deletion reviews. Did I mention the Jew was blocked for several months for A SINGLE COMPLAINT ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOUR?

Pieter has harassed numerous users away from contributing to Wikipedia. That he is still editing after all he's done is disgraceful. Commons' administration has clearly failed, and failed horribly.

A list of evidence follows:

The most recent incident was racist abuse against a German user, followed by harassment
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Martin_H.&curid=11544309&diff=46672583&oldid=46672239
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Farrel.jpg and
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Tiotio.jpg

The report, which before I noticed and acted upon it was full of people claiming that racist abuse was fine, and that Pieter was being harassed by being called out on it, is here:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#Racist_personal_attacks_by_Pieter_Kuiper

Pieter has a block log as long as your arm:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User%3APieter+Kuiper&type=block

However, he also has an unblock log, where the same few admins constantly unblock him, without insisting on a change in the problematic behaviour. This is a user who gets serial warnings and second chances, all the time becoming bolder and bolder.

A few past incidents will suffice:

The Wall of Shame incident, and the Havang_nl harassment.

Pieter's modus operandi has been to attempt to harass admins who do things he dislikes by scouring their image uploads to find something to request deletion on. The validity of these deletions varies in quality, and are often grasping at straws. Several of the blocks in the block log are for this.

One of the clearest incidents was when he attempted to refight old battles where the DR had gone against him, attacking the admins who uploaded and the admins who closed the DRs as keep. Here's the wall of shame he created.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3APieter_Kuiper&action=historysubmit&diff=41686053&oldid=41680497

The next few edits are him editwarring to keep the Wall of Shame up. He got blocked for this. He made an unblock, and Havang_nl denied it. So he promptly attacked Havang.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APieter_Kuiper&action=historysubmit&diff=42357364&oldid=42352174

---

I believe there were other incidents involving antisemitic cartoons being used to attack Mbz1, a Jew, but one can be found here, where he constantly insists on including a cartoon which he knows will upset said Jew.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Archive2009&diff=prev&oldid=33056706#BTW_about_copyright
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Archive2009&diff=next&oldid=33056706
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pieter_Kuiper/Archive2009&diff=next&oldid=33056769
this was followed by a WP:POINTy FPC nomination
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Featured_picture_candidates/File:Latuff_nazi_camp_2.png

It's clear that Commons cannot handle him, and I beseech the Foundation to step in, investigate the matter, and deal with it. I also think that every administrator involved in defending him, and encouraging the harassment of other users, should lose their admin rights.


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:41:28

Adam,

What a timely post. What an opportunity to test the Santa Claus hierarchical structure.

I do feel your pain, but given my extensive experience of bring up all sorts of shenanigans to the attention of this list and meeting the most deafening silence, I'm taking bets on what kind of response you going to get here or anywhere else, including where it would matter most: Commons. The house, as always, has an advantage: it has been already more then three hours since you posted your message and the response has been an overwhelming zero.

If you do succeed in bringing any change to Commons through this request of yours, I will follow with a similar one of my own concerning the Brazilian Wikipedia, whose de facto "president" has recently delivered a speech that includes some well oiled quotes like "I'm not a crook."

Actually the place is falling apart from rot: no bureaucrats, no checkusers, and an arbcom which is the epitome of fairness and due procedure, and now under the spell of a steward that lay in waiting for his time to take over. All of you that are believers join me in prayer for the salvation of that project, although I think that is not going to be enough. Things are going to get a lot worse, before they have a chance to get better, if ever.

Best of luck to you too, Carolina.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)


Pedro Sanchez
Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:59:02

is that br.wikipedia.org or.. is there a new wiki I don't know of? (I'm sorry to be so ignorant)


M. Williamson
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 00:15:29

No, br.wikipedia.org is the Breton Wikipedia. I think Virgilio is referring to pt.wp as the Brazilian Wikipedia because it is or he perceives it to be dominated by Brazilians.

-m.


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 00:45:11

Pedro,

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you or anybody. I thought people knew. It's the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. Unfortunately, despite all most pious statements to the contrary, the uncontroversial truth is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009. Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can read without being full of gramatical mistakes. Think about what good that is for the children, the elderly, and the low educated Portuguese speaking population. Hey! I got my first block (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Vapmachado#Bloqueado) for trying to write these Wikipedia pages (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Vapmachado/Artigos_e_Coment%C3%A1rios_04#P.C3.A1ginas_do_espa.C3.A7o_Wikipedia) the same way as ALL my students. Kind of hard to deny based on that evidence, isn't it. There's more to that block than this, but this is already a long answer (always my problem) to a very short question. At least I expect to have been thorough. Any other question, please don't hesitate. You can always contact me in private so that we will reach a consensus out of the limelight.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamchado)


Muhammad Yahia
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:00:27

Wouldn't an RFC on meta be the appropriate channel to voice both issues?

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/RFC

--
Best Regards,
Muhammad Yahia


David Gerard
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:09:08

This is Virgilio's pet around-and-around topic on this list.

- d.


Andreas Kolbe
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:09:09

I had a rather different impression of events around Pieter. I remember several times where he got admins on his case because he nominated copyvios for deletion which said admins had uploaded to Commons.

I'm also not sure whether a sarcastic reference to German efficiency in a talk page discussion qualifies as a racist remark. Etc.

Andreas


M. Williamson
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:21:27

Also from your talk page:

A partir de 1 de janeiro de 2009, as normas do Acordo Ortográfico de 1990 passaram a ser usadas de forma preferencial na Wikipédia de língua portuguesa, passando a ser redigidas em conformidade todas as "páginas oficiais" da Wikipédia (menus, políticas, recomendações, resolução de problemas, guias de ajuda, FAQ e glossário), bem como a página principal e os títulos de todos os artigos. No entanto, é mantida a liberdade de cada utilizador usar qualquer uma das três normas ortográficas e ficam interditas quaisquer edições que visem alterar a grafia das palavras de uma norma para outra (exceto nas "páginas oficiais", página principal e títulos de artigos, onde as regras de 1990 prevalecem).

Translation: From 1 January 2009, the norms of the Orthographic Agreement of 1990 will become used preferentially in the Portuguese language Wikipedia, with all of the "official pages" of Wikipedia being redrafted to conform to it (menus, policies, recommendations, problem resolution, help guides, FAQ and glossary), as well as on the Main Page and the titles of all articles. However, the freedom of each user to use whichever of the three orthographic norms is maintained and any edits that seek to change the spelling of words from one norm to the other remain prohibited (except on the "official pages", the main page and article titles, where the 1990 rules shall prevail).

As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal, although it may not yet be used in schools.

-m.


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:48:52

You see, there already someone with another POV on the matter of that user. I think this is the "correct" POV.

Watch and weep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wm2_YaRNbU

M., We all have perceptions. It's inherent to a the fact that we are all human beings. My perception is based on the facts that I quoted on my answer to Pedro. As anybody can see is not based on domination, but on Grammar (do you really want me to send you a bunch of citations of Portuguese Language grammars?) Yours is based on The Emperor's New Clothes?

Muhammad, an RFC on Meta? That's one of the best jokes I've read on this list in a long time. You must have missed my post of Dec. 5, under the subject "Fwd: Re: [VereinDE-l] Bericht zur Verleihung der Zedler-Me..."

David, Is there anything else more important for my students and me? Would you rather have me discuss if Jimmy Wales should appear in the fundraising banners with a clean shaven face of a full beard of considerable length (both can be accomplished using Photoshop, I would not want the man to change is personal style of choice) and the impact of both alternatives on the donations? I don't think so.

Thank you all for your undeserved attention.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamachado)
The only Wikipedian that has been dealt with by an arbcom by his real name, NOT his user name!


John Vandenberg
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:55:29

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, M. Williamson [...] wrote:
>.. As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal, although it may not yet be used in schools.

Thanks Mark.

for content, here is the Wikipedia article about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990

--
John Vandenberg


FT2
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 18:10:13

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt>wrote:

> The only Wikipedian that has been dealt with by an arbcom by his real name, NOT his user name!

This tag line is extremely inaccurate, for what it's worth.

FT2.


Huib Laurens
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 18:13:38

Hello,

Strange that Pieter kan rule Wikimedia Commons... So far that the Foundation need to step in.

Btw, there is even a request to get him blocked on OTRS...

People need to take action on Commons and don't point fingers because nothing will happen than.

Huib


Cool Hand Luke
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 20:17:13

What the hell is all this Portuguese stuff doing here?

Adam's original message seems very disturbing to me, but then I'm often disturbed by Commons.

Frank


Yann Forget
Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:06:16

Hello,

I used to think that Peter adds an interesting point of view to Commons, but he went too far.

I think that he should be blocked now once and for all.

Regards,

Yann

Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia

thumb|300px|right|Watercolor of Brazil

Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 02:05:34

At 01:21 07-12-2010, [M. Williamson] wrote:
>Also from your talk page:

>A partir de 1 de janeiro de 2009, as normas do Acordo Ortográfico de 1990 passaram a ser usadas de forma preferencial na Wikipédia de língua portuguesa, passando a ser redigidas em conformidade todas as "páginas oficiais" da Wikipédia (menus, políticas, recomendações, resolução de problemas, guias de ajuda, FAQ e glossário), bem como a página principal e os títulos de todos os artigos. No entanto, é mantida a liberdade de cada utilizador usar qualquer uma das três normas ortográficas e ficam interditas quaisquer edições que visem alterar a grafia das palavras de uma norma para outra (exceto nas "páginas oficiais", página principal e títulos de artigos, onde as regras de 1990 prevalecem).

>Translation: From 1 January 2009, the norms of the Orthographic Agreement of 1990 will become used preferentially in the Portuguese language Wikipedia, with all of the "official pages" of Wikipedia being redrafted to conform to it (menus, policies, recommendations, problem resolution, help guides, FAQ and glossary), as well as on the Main Page and the titles of all articles. However, the freedom of each user to use whichever of the three orthographic norms is maintained and any edits that seek to change the spelling of words from one norm to the other remain prohibited (except on the "official pages", the main page and article titles, where the 1990 rules shall prevail).

>As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal, although it may not yet be used in schools.

>-m.

M.,

And your point is?

My statement:

>the uncontroversial truth is that a small group of 16 editors decided that all titles of articles and titles and content of Wikipedia pages would be "translated" into Brazilian Portuguese starting January 1, 2009. Since that time there is no longer a Wikipedia that a Portuguese can read without being full of gramatical mistakes.

See any mistakes or anything wrong in that statement?

Do you prefer "pious statements to the contrary", "sand in the eyes" or "fog of war in MUD games" Do you know any other good expressions that might apply?

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia Public Enemy Number One


John Vandenberg
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 02:09:30

gramatical is spelled wrong.

and 'mistakes' is only true if you consider the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 to be a mistake.

--
John Vandenberg


WJhonson
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 02:11:00

Is this like the difference between "colour" in Great Britain and "color" in the U.S. ?


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 02:52:13

At 01:55 07-12-2010, [John Vandenberg] wrote:
>On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, M. Williamson [...] wrote:
> >.. As far as I can tell, this decision was reached by consensus, and the Acordo Ortográfico of 1990 is technically official in Portugal, although it may not yet be used in schools.

>Thanks Mark.

>for content, here is the Wikipedia article about it.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990

>--
>John Vandenberg

John,

Not a bad article. I'm not a linguist, so I can't do a knowledgeable evaluation, but again from the little that I know about he subject it looks pretty good. I only stumbled on "The adoption of the new orthography will cause changes in the spelling of about 1.6% of the words in the European norm (official also in Africa, Asia and Oceania) and about 0.5% in the Brazilian norm." Not sure those figures are accurate. It omits some very important historic facts, but that much is recognized by the label on top. It still presents the "correct" POV, but that is old news.

I also have a visceral dislike for stuff like "European norm," not to mention "European Portuguese." I have written about that elsewhere (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vapmachado/Portuguese_language_issues) but that is NOT why I'm blocked on Meta. They don't block people there for serious stuff like that.

Now our dear correspondent Mark as stated that "it may not yet be used in schools." "May"? Do you really have any doubts? You are at a huge disadvantage. You see, schools are my line of business and have been for 56 years. Joined at 4 and have not left yet. My children are still attending school, and I've already paid a visit to the elementary school right next to me, about this matter. So let me make your dubious (I wonder why...) statement to something more precise:

It is NOT used in schools.

Before signing off, and before I forget, let me ask another trivial question. It has been a long, long time since you have opened a grammar of any language, hasn't it? That's an easy guess, considering what a grammar is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar) and that the differences between Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese of Portugal go way beyond differences in orthography. You'll find a lot of good links here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Portuguese_language_issues, particularly this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Portuguese#Grammar

I think you'll be just treading water, and will not get anywhere this way. Why not try: Let's not feed the trolls, and ignore me, has you guys use to do, when you don't get right down uncivil?

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamachado)
An harmless guy who had this idea that Wikipedia was a great thing for his students, and paid dearly for it.


Nathan
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 02:59:28

According to his userpage, Mark Williamson has at least a basic grasp of something like 17 languages. It's possible he has more experience with a grammar than you expect.

Nathan


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 03:17:26

At 02:09 07-12-2010, [John Vandenberg] wrote:
>On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> > M.,

> > And your point is?

> > My statement:

> > > ... gramatical mistakes.

> > See any mistakes or anything wrong in that statement?

>gramatical is spelled wrong.

>and 'mistakes' is only true if you consider the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 to be a mistake.

>--
>John Vandenberg

John,

I should have guessed. You sound like a good humored pal. I bet that if we would get together for a good meal and plenty of wine or beer, by the end of the evening we would agree about everything. Shame you're so far away, but you do honor the reputation of your mates.

That picture on your user page looks awfully familiar. Would you mind helping me identify it?

You may check my user page too, on the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia. It's a barrel of laughs. Sorry you'll have to check the history. :-)

Warm regards,

Virgilio


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 03:29:33

At 02:59 07-12-2010, [Nathan] wrote:
>According to his userpage, Mark Williamson has at least a basic grasp of something like 17 languages. It's possible he has more experience with a grammar than you expect.

>Nathan

Nathan,

So what? If he does, he didn't show it as far as Portuguese is concerned. Any six year old child has a basic grasp of Portuguese grammar (spelled that right...) even before they enter elementary school. Basic grasp of any other 16 languages is not required. :-)

I don't think Mark has any use for advocates. he is old enough to speak for himself, isn't he?

Try another approach. :-)

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado
The one with a basic grasp of only six languages, and feels totally disadvantaged compared to the World population in general, and Wikipedians in particular


M. Williamson
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 08:09:10

> Before signing off, and before I forget, let me ask another trivial question. It has been a long, long time since you have opened a grammar of any language, hasn't it? That's an easy guess,

Watch the personal attacks. I read grammars every day, it's part of my work. Just last week I had a book in Italian and another in English, grammars of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunama_language ; I'm currently trying to make my way through a didactic grammar of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luise%C3%B1o_language in my spare time and I currently have a book in front of me, which I will cite in the work I am currently doing, called "Lenguas criollas de base lexical espanola y portuguesa", containing articles in 3 languages (Spanish, Portuguese and English). My bookshelves are filled with grammars of various languages. So I'll thank you to cease your personal attacks.

-m.


John Vandenberg
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 10:36:24

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:11 PM, WJhonson [...] wrote:
> Is this like the difference between "colour" in Great Britain and "color" in the U.S. ?

no.

--
John Vandenberg

Lead by example

Frederik de Klerk with Nelson Mandela - World Economic Forum Annual Meeting Davos 1992

President Mandela meeting with his predecessor F.W. De Klerk

Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:50:00

Let's see if I can get this right.

There has been a very entertaining, albeit totally useless exchange on this list, as far as real results are concerned.

I forgot at least one of the rules (probably more) of this list, and (almost) always addressed my comments to the person who made the comment. The exchange went well, was mostly good humored, but that's not how things are supposed to happen here. I apologize for so blatantly disrespecting that list rule, and any other one, that I might not be aware at the moment. I appreciate the patience and understanding of all directly involved, and all the readers who had to endure my misbehavior.

That said, there's no excuse for the overblowing of my comments and hyperbolic references to "personal attacks," by now a concept so overused that it has lost any credibility whatsoever.

Let me quote some examples of what was NOT perceived as "personal attacks":

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 17:15:29
From: M. Williamson

"he perceives it to be dominated by Brazilians."

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:09:08
From: David Gerard

"This is Virgilio's pet around-and-around topic on this list."

(The above line was the sum total of this comment)

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:55:29
From: John Vandenberg

"Thanks Mark."

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 13:09:30
From: John Vandenberg

"gramatical is spelled wrong.

and 'mistakes' is only true if you consider the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 to be a mistake."

(Notwithstanding this was all that was posted, it led to a pretty pleasant exchange between me and John. Most of the time, big boys don't need to be patronized. We took good care of ourselves. No moderator intervention was necessary.)

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 21:59:28
From: Nathan

"It's possible he has more experience with a grammar than you expect."

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 01:09:10
From: M. Williamson

> Before signing off, and before I forget, let me ask another trivial question. It has been a long, long time since you have opened a grammar of any language, hasn't it? That's an easy guess,

"Watch the personal attacks. [...] So I'll thank you to cease your personal attacks."

My whole paragraph was:

Before signing off, and before I forget, let me ask another trivial question. It has been a long, long time since you have opened a grammar of any language, hasn't it? That's an easy guess, considering what a grammar is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar) and that the differences between Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese of Portugal go way beyond differences in orthography. You'll find a lot of good links here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Portuguese_language_issues, particularly this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Portuguese#Grammar

[...]

To call the attention of ALL participants in the discussion to "Please focus on the comment, not the person making the comment." is absolutely right and appropriate. To make it in a message addressed to me smacks of "personal attack," and since it was made by a list moderator, I would say that is a very serious offense. We all should be aware of our responsibilities. We all have duties and rights here. One wrong, does not justify a worst one. Any moderator that fails to perform his duties appropriately, should take a leave of absence, graciously submitting a request to be relieved of his responsibilities.

From them on, an exemplary participation in this list would be the best and only argument to ask to be reinstated as a moderator.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado


Ryan Lomonaco
Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:41:44

This comment slipped by the first time, but I want to bring this up to illustrate a point. Virgilio is referring to an e-mail I sent to him, asking him to cool down in a somewhat heated discussion earlier this week. I sent the e-mail while sleepy and probably could have phrased it better; I also sent the e-mail to Virgilio only, rather than to all the participants, who also could have used a reminder. I've apologized to Virgilio for handling the issue poorly, but this is another example of why it's a bad idea to send an e-mail when not in the right frame of mind!

Proof that we all make mistakes.

-Ryan

Accuracy required

Accuracy and precision example

A- Precise and accurate; B- Precise but not accurate; C- Accurate but imprecise; D- Not accurate nor precise

Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 21:27:21

At 18:10 07-12-2010, you wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt>wrote:

> > The only Wikipedian that has been dealt with by an arbcom by his real name, NOT his user name!

>This tag line is extremely inaccurate, for what it's worth.

>FT2.

Let's see if perfect practice makes perfect.

The quoted tag line, "The only Wikipedian that has been dealt with by an arbcom by his real name, NOT his user name!" has been questioned has "extremely inaccurate."

It was used right below a name and user name: "Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapamachado)"

Since the arbcom wiki was omitted, it was assumed that it would be understood that it referred to the user's "home wiki."

What exactly is "extremely inaccurate" in the quoted text?

If no clear explanation is provided by the author of that qualification, he or she should be kind enough to withdraw the comment and apologize.

"for what it's worth" is an expression conveying bonhomie, helpful, friendly, or is it a put down, sneer, scornful, snooty comment, more akin to what is usually called here a "personal attack"?

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado
The one with only this tag line


FT2
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 21:34:45

When a person says "by an arbcom" it implies by one of several arbcoms that exist. The word "an" (um/uma) suggests one of several/many.

Perhaps more accurately "by the Portuguese Wikipedia Arbcom"?

The term "for what it's worth" (or "as an aside") in English implies information provided that may or may not be useful to the reader but is given because it is possibly helpful.

FT2


FT2
Tue, 7 Dec 2010 21:44:55

(For example if a person says "I was contacted by *an admin*" the reader is not being told it is a specific admin. The users has not said "by the same admin as before" or any other indication which one. "I am employed by *an academy*" does not necessarily mean the one academy I live near or worked with in the past.)

FT2


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Wed, 8 Dec 2010 22:28:14

Still practicing, after all these years.

From the information provided to this list, it is reasonable to assume that other wikipedians, besides this one, have been dealt with by other arbcomcs, besides the pt.wiki arbcom, by their real names, like Virgilio A. P. Machado, NOT their user names, like Vapmachado.

This page lists existing arbcoms: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_Committee

For reasons of the utmost importance, not only to this user but to the communities at large, the assistance of the members of this list is asked in helping identifying as many of those cases as possible.

This request for assistance is made, due to the dauting task of searching each and everyone of the arbcoms archives to find those examples. If readers provide information from the arbcoms with which they are most familiar, this could be a fine example of cooperative work. Given the assumption above, it is expected that the list member who classified the original sentence as "extremely inaccurate" would have no difficulty whatsoever in providing at least another example. The cooperation of the other readers would also help to justify the use of "extremely inaccurate." The mere occurrence of another case hardly justifies classifying an accuracy of 50 % as "extremely inaccurate."

Please remember to provide a link to each case you may identify and would be so kind as to contribute to the gathering of that information. My own case can be found here:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado and

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado

Thank you so very much for your cooperation and understanding.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
The one that can be fooled by some people all of the time, by all the people some of the time, but not all of the people, all of the time.


FT2
Wed, 8 Dec 2010 22:44:29

Look up English Arbcom history. There have been several cases there. But real people at Arbitration (whatever community) are best not publicized - we aim not to harm real people.

A number of big cases included users under their real names, some smaller ones were named under people's real names too. Check it out, if you like, but please don't publicize a list.

FT2


John Vandenberg
Wed, 8 Dec 2010 22:53:10

I am not aware of cases on English Wikipedia which are named after the person except where that person used their name as their username. It is typical that we avoid a name where a username exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Bluemarine

However there are many cases named after people where their name is also their username.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=233468914
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=388967291

more can be found at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Cases

English Wikipedia ArbCom usually blanks old decisions on request of a person whose real name is mentioned in the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=360884606

--
John Vandenberg


FT2
Wed, 8 Dec 2010 23:08:47

I was thinking of another case, whose link on enwiki is Wikipedia:Requests for Arbitration/Real-name. That case had two users, both under their real names. One of them was the user whose real name was used for the case.

Like John says, cases usually try to avoid using a real name where possible. But if the user's username is their real name then it will be named in the case for that reason.

FT2


Newyorkbrad
Thu, 9 Dec 2010 01:17:39

On the English Wikipedia, we generally try to avoid bringing editors' real names into decisions, unless the username is the real name. In the three years I've been an arbitrator, we have extended this courtesy even to some highly troublesome users. (Aficionadoes of the En-WP arbitration pages will recognize the "Mantanmoreland" and "MZMcBride 2" cases as examples.)

I am not clear, however, on why this issue of such such importance to the thread-creator.

Newyorkbrad


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Thu, 9 Dec 2010 19:37:56

1) No real names will be disclosed on this list on account of the request made.

2) No action is asked or expected.

These two personal commitments are important before answering an absolutely legitimate request for clarification: "why [is] this issue of such [...] importance to the thread-creator."

It is very important for this user. Most are now familiar with the use of his real name by the pt.wiki arbcom.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado

and

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado

That never bothered the user or the foregone decision to filter his edits for infinity, a period that far exceeds his expected natural life. The 53 irregularities that overshadowed the case bothered him a great deal more.

What is not so well known is that four months later, while quietly working on a new subpage, after listing the real names of two users, this was used against him and eventually led to him being blocked or banned (depending on the page you look at) for infinity, by the same administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, and arbcom member (hopefully no title was left out) that led the arbcom in the case using his real name.

It is very important for the pt.wiki.

The governance of the pt.wiki is in such disrepair that this user felt compelled to gather as much information as possible on a Meta page. Soon, that work was under attack by the same user mentioned above and one of his accomplices, and his now on hold as a user subpage:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues

This modest work was started in May 4, 2010, well before the following reports on Meta:

October 2010 -
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sir_Lestaty_de_Lioncourt/Archive/October/2010

November 2010 -
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards'_noticeboard

It is very important to the communities at large.

Unaware of the existence of this essay (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu/Essay and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kylu/Essay), this user opened a request for comment on Meta on "What is public and non-public personal information?" (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information) which brought to the fore some of fears, tabus and misconceptions that are quite widespread on Wikimedia projects.

It is hoped that the above explanations fully justify the statement that the user was interested in the information requested "For reasons of the utmost importance, not only to this user but to the communities at large." as it would provide more evidence of real names being used, without leading to the blocking or banning of the arbcoms that used them in the TITLE of a case.

Due to the sensitivity of the matter, this user wishes to withdraw his request, and apologizes for any anxiety he might have caused in some members of this list. What happened to him is evidence enough. If there are no further questions concerning this request, it will now be considered closed. For inquires, opinions, and/or debate about other matters mentioned above, both this user and the listed talk pages are available to all.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
"Co-author" of "A civilized community"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Comment_draft


FT2
Thu, 9 Dec 2010 20:23:50

That won't help much.

If I understand your email correctly, you want the information in order to protest on pt.wiki - either about your name being used or about being blocked for mentioning other users' names.

There are problems with this.

  1. The thread started by saying it is inaccurate to use a tag line "the only person ruled by an arbcom under a real name (in the title)". Cases exist (eg enwiki Arbcom)
  2. Each project is independent. What enwiki does may truthfully be different from ruwiki, ptwiki, dewiki. wikis can be very different and their internal decisions on these things can be compared but it is not going to persuade anyone about pt.wiki, if you try and argue about events on some other wiki.
  3. Even on a single wiki, treatment may vary within context. For example on enwiki a user may be blocked indefinitely for naming another user's real name, or an arbcom case may even be named after a real name. What is the difference? In the first case the real name was not public, in the second case the real name was also their username. So a lot varies depending on context and community.
  4. You may be the only person dealt with under a real name *by pt-arbcom*. But nobody has said you were or weren't.

Hope this helps?

FT2


Ryan Lomonaco
Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:32:59

FT2,

Please let it go - I talked with Virgilio off-list yesterday; it sounds like he didn't mean to stir up a storm, and would rather this thread die.

Thanks,
Ryan


FT2
Thu, 9 Dec 2010 23:16:50

Sure (and in reply to your off-list mail, it's fine, easily done).

The questions seemed genuine and seeking a genuine explanation. If it's been covered elsewhere that's good enough.

FT2

10 Years of Wikipedia: What's That Mean to You?

Fred Barnard07

"Yes men" like Charles Dickens' character Uriah Heep

Moka Pantages
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14 06:49:13

Hi, everyone.

I'm working with Steven Walling and the WikiX team to help get ready for the coming celebrations. As you know, Wikipedia’s 10-year birthday is coming up really soon! We’ve got scores of events planned—at least two on every continent so far[1]—and we’re hoping for more. Now, we just need to make sure the rest of the world knows about this amazing milestone, too.

Most people outside of the community don’t fully realize we’re a mission-driven, non-profit movement run by real, everyday people. Often, Wikipedia is thought to be a static product or service, not a living, breathing community of people, from all walks of life, who care about providing a free public service to the world. We want the rest of the world to know and understand us as a people-driven movement, appreciate what we’re doing and --most importantly-- join us. To help, we're asking volunteers [2] passionate about Wikipedia to take a few minutes to write a bit about what it means to be a Wikipedian. Telling your own story about your personal connection to Wikipedia is about being proud of the time you’ve spent working on an international pubic resource and vital necessity to over 400 million people all over the world. It’s about thanking the thousands of people who work alongside you to keep this amazing project going.

In addition, we're compiling information about Wikipedia in the form of a historical timeline [3], curating interesting data in the form of top 10 lists [4][5] and searching for long-time Wikipedians who might also be celebrating their 10th birthday as editors [6]. If you have anything to add [7], please share!

As always, if you have any questions or suggestions, let us know.

Cheers,

Moka Pantages
Wikimedia Foundation
Communications


[1] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Communications_Kit
[2] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Stories
[3] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_timeline
[4] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_by_the_numbers
[5] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia's_Top_Ten
[6] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedians_celebrating_their_tenth_WikiBirthday
[7] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share#Wikipedians_celebrating_their_tenth_WikiBirthday


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14 19:00:46

What has been written about 10 years of Wikipedia brought to my mind thoughts of victory disease (1), groupthink (2), hubris (3), narcissism (4), communal reinforcement (5), consensus reality (6), confirmation bias (7) or, more appropriately, Wikiality (8) as well as nemesis (9), Watergate (10), and WikiLeaks (11), not necessarily in this order.

Happy Birthday. Enjoy the celebrations of 10 years of Wikipedia.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado


(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_disease
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
(3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris
(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
(5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_reinforcement
(6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_reality
(7) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
(8) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_in_culture#Wikiality
(9) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28mythology%29
(10) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal
(11) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks

Wikis analysed

Knowledgemap

KnowledgeMap

Olaf Simons
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:15:48

Hi,

I am thinking of recommending a wiki database to a research project planned at Erfurt University. The group I have to advise is planning to edit late 17th and early 18th century letters of the "republic of letters" with the aim to reconstruct the flow of ideas and the personal networks that generated this flow. A wiki should be a superb tool for the editing process the project will have to get through. Yet I am more interested in tools we would later on use to analyse our data (we will prabably create pages of individual letters, other pages on authors and topics, and, of course, categories etc.).

My question is now: I have seen exploits (yet never taken any notes) that analysed Wikis and gave net-work structures of the interrelated pages and category trees. One such thing was shown here only recently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-11-29/News_and_notes

...yet the digest given here would be too vague for our purposes. We would probably have to plan the entire wiki in a way that we could get defiinite pictures of the development of 17th century intellectual networks (how do they spread on the European map? Who is communicating with whom? Who is playing what role in the process?), and of the flow of topics within these networks.

Ideas of who would provide technical solutions and give advise on how to create such wiki in a manner that it can be analysed fruitfully, would be most welcome,

regards
Olaf Simons


Gotha Research Centre, Germany
...and Germany's wikipedia


John Vandenberg
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:02:02

Hi Olaf,

This would be a good WikiProject within Wikisource, or on top of Wikisource.

Do you have scans of the letters?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikisource

Wikisource is already set up to manage the transcription and presentation of the letters, pages about authors, etc., and the community will pitch in with setting up your data.

You can focus on the linking between texts, analysis, etc.

The wiki-research-l list may be of interest to you.

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l


Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam@fct.unl.pt>
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14 22:55:38

It's quite interesting that this topic has surfaced. The applications of such software might be of great interest in many areas. Some of those applications seem so powerful that it seems likely that this might be already well developed. The application mentioned in the opening of this thread concerns "late 17th and early 18th century letters of the "republic of letters" with the aim to reconstruct the flow of ideas and the personal networks that generated this flow" and the "tools we would later on use to analyze our data." Reference was made to analysis of wikis that "gave network structures of the interrelated pages and category trees" while recognizing the need to go much further, in order to "get definite pictures of the development of 17th century intellectual networks (how do they spread on the European map? Who is communicating with whom? Who is playing what role in the process?), and of the flow of topics within these networks."

Consider now a different study object: foreign diplomatic relations, drug trafficking (no pun intended), global warfare development, political intrigue or, at a smaller scale, organizational intrigue. From an historic point of view the results might provide great depth of knowledge. In real time, as the events unfold, this could be a powerful tool to understand how things evolve in a certain direction.

The Wikimedia projects power structure is definitely a serious candidate for such analysis.

Sincerely,

Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)


WJhonson
Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14 23:11:09

In a message dated 12/14/2010 2:55:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, vam at fct.unl.pt writes:

> The Wikimedia projects power structure is definitely a serious candidate for such analysis.

What is this?
Link ?

Will